Kwabena Devonish

Cardiff. 

Date: 2025.

Kwabena, a young artist and activist from Cardiff, shares her story of growing up in Cardiff, and her views on Black Welsh History, activism and the Welsh Ballroom Community.

Hannah Ringane
Where did you go to school and what did your school and your way to school look like?

Kwabena Devonish
I went to school in Holy Family Primary School. It was actually like a five-minute walk from my house. It was past the shops, so we'd always go to the shops in the morning before school. The school's quite small. I'd say probably less than 300 pupils. It was very small, a little small school like next to a field.

HR
What else did you do as a kid?

KD
Me and my friends usually went to the fields. Where my house is, there's a lot of farmer's fields around the area, so we'd go play there, ride our bikes around and just have fun being free.

HR
Who are some important figures in your life when you were a child?

KD
I’d probably say my dad. He taught me a lot about the world. He would always tell me to question authority. He taught me what racism was from a young age. I feel that [it] was really important for me to understand the world and how to navigate it. I think he just taught me a lot about Black history, the lineage that we come from and [he taught me] to always be proud of that.

HR
What kind of Black history did he talk about with you?

KD
He made me this book actually, and it had Black inventors in it: the person who invented the Super Soaker, even the person who invented the light bulb was actually a Black person [Lewis Howard Latimer], but it's registered in the name of a white inventor.
He would talk about all these different things, because I was really into science when I was younger. So, he would teach me about different Black scientists who were influential. The first person to create the GPS system was a Black woman [Gladys West, one of the inventors, her crucial work is recognised in enabling the accuracy and functionality of the GPS]. Different stuff which really opened my eyes to see how much of an influence we have in society.

HR
Following that, who were your heroes and role models?

KD
I'd probably say Angela Davis. I feel like she's a very prominent figure in terms of Black liberation, but also because of how she often would link struggles. She was part of the feminist wave as well, but she also understood that she didn't just stand with women. She stood with working class women. She stood with all Black and Latina women, those who were oppressed. I feel [that] she always linked the struggles between the Vietnam War, but also the racism that Black people were facing in America. I feel like that's really important: to be able to link struggles and realise that actually a lot of the problems in society come from the same system.

HR
So, something about intersectionality. Is [that] something that you looked up to?

KD
Yeah, Angela Davis was able to speak about intersectionality before the term was even coined. She understood that what underpins a lot of our oppression is capitalism, is the system that we live in. It's not other people who are around us, it's actually the systems that we're forced to participate in.

HR
Changing topics a bit, we would love to learn about your heritage.

KD
My family are from the Caribbean. My mum is from St Kitts and Navies. My dad's family are from Barbados. I went to Barbados last year during the summer for the first time. And it was a real experience. I really enjoyed it. It felt like home. Meeting my family for the first time, getting to spend time with them, learning about the history of Barbados. Even recently I've been reading a lot about the slave revolts that happened across the Caribbean, from the Haitian revolution to all the amazing people who were able to fight against the oppression in that time and how it links to the spirit of the Caribbean now.

HR
I love how you also use that word 'home'. What does home mean to you?

KD
Home is where you can just be yourself, where you feel free. Somewhere where you're just welcomed in. I remember going to my auntie's house for the first time. It's like I was there before, but that was my first time ever being there. But it felt really comforting and warm. It felt like somewhere that was familiar.

HR
You talked about how you felt connected to Barbados when you visited, and to your auntie's house. Are there any other places and communities that you feel connected to?

KD
I'd say probably more so now, in the last year, I have real respect for the Muslim community in Cardiff. A lot of my friends are Muslim, and through being involved with the Palestine movement, I've been able to connect with a lot of Muslim people in Cardiff, and get to see their strength and resilience. How their faith gives them so much strength. But also, a lot of the Muslim people who I'm friends with, they practice their religion, but they also see their religion as a reason for them to come out, as a reason to stand for the oppressed, and I really respect that. I do really feel connected to them.

HR
About the community or the place that you grew up in. How was it? What kind of people are part of that community? Do you still hold any connection or any stories or memories when you think about that community?

KD
The community in Pentrebane. It was mainly a white-community. I think in my year, I was one of just three black people in my whole year. I still enjoyed my upbringing, and I have a connection to that community because that is where I'm from, and I do resonate with the people there. Even in terms of just understanding the people there and the energy there. I think it was good growing up there.

Obviously, as a Black person in a predominantly white area, you're going to face racism or some type of discrimination, but it was never something that hindered me as a child. It was never something that really kept me down or something that I felt was apparent in my everyday life. I still felt part of the community and I really enjoyed my childhood.

HR
I'd love if you'd expand more and talk about more with the Welsh Ballroom Community; your involvement in it and your connection to it.

KD
So, the Welsh Ballroom community comes from ballroom culture. Ballroom culture came from Black and Latina trans women in America, who took the inspiration from drag pageants. They realized [that] they faced a lot of racism within the pageant world and broke off and created their own kind of pageant, which we know as ballroom today; it includes fashion, beauty, music, all different kinds of stuff, all rolled into one. It’s just a place for queer people, specifically queer people of color, to be able to express themselves and be free, be in a safe space and find real community.

A lot of the people during the 70s would be in houses, often [with] their chosen family. A lot of them would have been kicked out of their paternal homes for being queer so then they would form these houses, and we still have houses today. We don't live together but it's still that sense of community, being around people that have your back, [that] are going to support you and guide you to be the best person you can be. Welsh Ballroom is definitely that for me, a real community in terms of the support and the love we have for each other. Allowing each other to just be and express ourselves however we want. There's no judgment or shame in how you express your gender or your sexuality.

HR
We would love if you could talk more about Cardiff right now; when it comes to culture, activism, and society, what are your feelings on these, and what seems urgent?

KD
I'd say Cardiff, definitely over the last year, has built a real active community in terms of being involved in, not only the Palestine movement, but anti-racism. I feel really proud to be a part of the Cardiff community in terms of how it's mobilised and brought people together.

I think before the Palestine movement happened, [when it] erupted again last October, I feel like a lot of people weren't really aware of issues going on globally. It can be very easy to be quite passive and to see things as: 'oh, you know that's happening over there; it doesn't really affect me.' But then I feel since last October, it really opened people's eyes to to what's going on in the world. But also, how the UK is so complicit in a lot of that's going on, like not just complicit in terms of giving arms to Israel, but also the creation of Israel and [how] the UK that had a huge part in that.

But also I feel it opened up questions to people around imperialism, colonialism, and racism in general. And I feel [that] a lot of the people in Cardiff, like activist community are so active now, and are wanting to learn more and be a part of something. That's how a lot of people have found their community; it's not just based on 'oh, we like doing this activity, so we're going to join.' We share the same values, we want this to create the same type of world where everyone is free and is safe and is happy. And people are creating a bond which I think is really amazing to see.

I feel that's also added to the culture because then we've seen so many events happen over the last couple of months that have brought people together. Even in terms of the rise of the far right and fascism in Cardiff, we outnumbered the fascists by a hundred, and I think it showed people that there's the threat of the rise of the far right out there, but there is also more of us than there are of them. I think it forced people to realise [that] actually ‘I have to be involved in the fight for a better world, ‘I can't just expect other people to do it’.

The way I've seen the Cardiff's community grow, in terms of activism, has been really amazing, to see people come together for a real purpose. That has led people to get involved in different cultures, especially from the student encampment for Palestine. I think that was a real cultural exchange for a lot of people; learning about different cultures; and different foods; just being to exchange life experiences. When you do that it often makes people realise [that] we're not that different from each other and the things we're fighting [for] are very similar, and the only way we can win those things is if we come together to fight them. So yeah, it's just been amazing to see the Cardiff activist community grow and build and have so many core values that are shared between so many people.

HR
You said something which I found interesting, about how people initially were quite passive. I wanted to ask how were you able to find community and connection to people who aren't like you? And perhaps this can be something for viewers as well, because I feel like that's something that the UK struggles with.

KD
I think being involved in the struggle changes people's ideas, people change when they met head-on with something, and I feel like having solidarity with people is the best way to change people's ideas. We've seen this in the movement, in terms of the police. Often in society, obviously we're told that they're there to protect us and they're there to protect and serve us, and to help us.
But then, when people are met with brutality from the police, their ideas change very quickly. And I think that, again, having solidarity those people who face those issues is so important. Once they see the people who stand by them through these tough times, they think, 'Oh, actually, these people have been there for me before so maybe I should fight for them as well’.

I think having true solidarity with people, and not in a transactional way, but in a meaningful way. When you see someone going through something, when you see a really important issue, to actively stand with that person and say, 'Well, actually, I understand you; I'm gonna fight for you.' That's the way of building that connection with people and creating a community that's built on like core values.

HR
What do you think is urgent right now for Cardiff in terms of what they perhaps need to do to improve or what's Cardiff doing well?

KD
I think what Cardiff is doing well is definitely coming out on the streets. We've been out every single Saturday for the past year for Palestine, but not only for Palestine, but for Sudan, for Congo. We’ve been able to get really good numbers of people coming out on the streets. I think a lot of that is because people want to talk about these issues. They see what's going on in the news, they see the horrors of the genocide, they see what's going on in Congo and Sudan and they want to talk about it, they want to understand it more. I think Cardiff has done really well in terms of providing that space for people to come and have those open conversations.

People know that they can come to a demo and speak to people and have those conversations which I think is an amazing thing we've been able to create.

What can we do more of? I guess is just developing the politics further because I think that, that's the thing that can be hard, when you come out and you're fighting something, especially coming out against the genocide. We've seen it escalate over the year. It can be really demoralizing, but I think in those situations you have to leave with the politics because ultimately, how Israel is viewed now is so different from when it was at the start of the year.

They’ve been isolated by the international community, they’re being investigated for genocide by the International Criminal Court of Justice. That is a huge win, and the narrative around Israel has shifted hugely. In terms of the trade unions; I think the TUC voted on a motion to get the government to stop sending arms. That only happened because we came out on the streets and we pushed for that, so leading sometimes with the politics is really important to stop people getting like demoralized. A lot of the times, [when there’s a ] struggle, you're not doing it for the here and now. You're doing it for the future, so it can be demoralising when you don't see an immediate change, but you can only create that change if it's consistent and sustained. Having the politics to push you through that is really important.

HR
Are there any particular challenges that you felt while growing up?

KD
I don't know. I feel like when I moved... So, when I went to uni, I went to university in Bournemouth. And I think a lot of people - in Bournemouth you get a lot of students from London, areas like that - and when I said to people [that] 'I'm from Wales', they'd be like ‘What do you mean?’. If people say, ‘where are you from?’ I'd say Wales, because that's where I've grown up, that's all I've ever known. My mum came to Wales when she was two, my dad was born here, so that's all I've ever known.

Obviously, I say my family is in the Caribbean, my heritage is Caribbean, and I feel like sometimes people would see that as me like almost dissing my my heritage if I say I'm from Wales, but ultimately that's the community that I'm from. It's from Wales. it's the way I've grown up, that's all I've ever known.

When I went to Bournemouth, I feel like it was a shock because then also people would try and say that I was white because I'm saying I'm from Wales. I'm not white because I'm saying it's the place that I [was] born [in]. Whiteness or Blackness are constructs. They don't actually mean anything. I would consider myself Black because I come from the Black radical tradition of fighting against oppression. That's how I would consider my Blackness, not necessarily [because of] where I was born.

I feel like that was a shock for me when I moved to Bournemouth. Being considered white because I would say I was from Wales, or I couldn't speak another language. For me, growing up in a predominantly white area, it did make me shape my Blackness in a different way. My Blackness wasn't shaped by being around other black people – not counting my family - but in terms of my friendship group, I didn't have Black friends. So my Blackness was shaped more through my politics and the things that my dad would teach me, rather than the cultural aspect, even though it's important. I do have parts of the cultural aspect, but I feel like I've shaped a lot of my ideas of my Blackness around my politics. That was something that I learned growing up, when I got to uni, and I was out on my own talking about my upbringing. I think that's something that I learned.

HR
Do you feel like there's a difference between Black Welsh versus Black British, which is now coming up as an identity. Or, like Black English?

KD
Yeah, I definitely do. I feel that. Now, [it] has become really popular to be Black British. Then again, because how I identify my Blackness is with politics, I feel like, to identify as Black British, but not to identify with the politics of being Black in Britain, it's a disconnect.
The history of Black people in Britain has always been [about] the fight against the system. We had our own Black Panther party here in the U.K. But also, the politics of the U.K. is not the same as the U.S. Anti-Blackness is not as prevalent. In the UK, as it is in the U.S. Whereas we have a huge history of South Asian communities being attacked by the far right, and Black people being involved in that struggle to help the South Asian communities.

Black British has become a popular term because it's just been capitalised on being a Black person with a funny London accent, do you know what I mean?
To sell to Americans. Seeing Black British is like seeing the struggles that Black people went through, like the Windrush generation. And how this led us to where we are today, and to honor that,

I think that's the important part of being Black British.

HR
Why do you feel like there's a distinction between Black Welsh specifically?

KD
I’d say because it's not just English. I don't know, I feel Wales such a warmer place; I'm not saying obviously there's no racism whatsoever in Wales, I think in terms of the people, it can be a warmer place.

But then in terms of the systems, the governors, they are very similar to England. South Wales Police has the highest number of complaints next to the Met. So, in terms of systems, there is no difference in terms of racism between the English border and the Welsh border. But for me, I would just say it's warmer for me because of the people in Wales.

When you think of England, all you think of is the empire and colonialism, and how the wealth of England was created through that. Some of that did come to Wales, I'm not denying that. I feel like it's just a small distinction, but then on a wider level there probably isn't that much distinction. On a personal level to me, I just feel like yeah the people are just warmer in Wales.

HR
I'd love to hear about what the highlights and challenges of your adult life are.

KD
Highlights? I feel like I have learned a lot. When you leave education, you're kind of just told to go out in the world and just work, and then just do that for the rest of your life. I feel I've really pushed myself to learn a lot and [to] continue learning. Even if you're not in education, someone's not telling you to read a book. I feel like it's still important to expand yourself and to understand the world that you're living in. I’ve learned a lot and I've accomplished a lot in terms of the platforms that I've been on to speak and the people that I''ve met. I'd say the hardest thing is money, just living under capitalism is just hard. Earning a living and then trying to live that life is a very hard thing to do. I would say trying to earn money and also be active, because it is really hard to have a job and then be involved in activism, organising. It is a hard balance, but I do think it is possible. It can just be a bit difficult at times.

HR
How do you keep that learning attitude?

KD
I feel like I've always been a curious person. Again, my dad would always tell me to always question the things around you. You shouldn't accept things for just what they are. Just reading about the world. I've always been. Reading books and reading news articles. I feel it just keeps you more aware and it just gives you a better understanding of the world and how you can make it better.

HR
I'd love to learn about more about your parents, your grandparents, and your ancestors. What do they do? How do they live? Do you have any particular memories or histories when it comes to them?

KD
My dad, he's a technician in the university. And he, I remember when he graduated - he's got a degree in media. I went to his graduation. It was me, my mum, my nan and my granddad; I remember that day so vividly. I can't even remember where it was -it was somewhere in England, [where] he did his course, and it was just such a nice day, and it was just nice to celebrate with everyone. I think that was the first time I traveled somewhere with my nan and my granddad. I could see how proud they were of him. It made me realise how important [it was that] they saw him getting an education even later in life. They still saw that as such an important thing. My dad always encouraged me to learn.

HR
What about your ancestors? When you went back home, you talked about this inherent feeling of connection and home, and warmness. Do you perhaps feel that in terms of your ancestors? And if so, what does that look like?

KD
I feel like we're always connected to something bigger. I feel like, how you connect to that is like learning about your history. When I talk about [me] being from a Black radical tradition, a lot of that I've learned. I’ve learnt about the slave revolts and the spirit of the Caribbean. I feel like they just don't take anything lying down. My whole family, my cousin, when he watches the news, he'd be like, 'No, is there something more to this’. They are very inquisitive people. That is something that I've taken with me as well, in terms of just not accepting things for how they are. You should always question things or push things further.

That is the spirit, especially my family in the Caribbean, in Barbados, that's the energy that they give. It just inspires me to keep pushing. Even now, they'll always send me messages to make sure I'm okay. They'll never discourage me from doing activism. They'll always encourage me to do it. Obviously, they want me to be safe, but they've never discouraged me and they always encouraged me to keep pushing. Even when the far-right stuff was happening, my cousin just messaged me...he's like ‘Kwabena’, he said 'You best not be on those streets'. I said 'I have to, because we have to stand against it’. 'Yeah, I know’ he said ‘but be careful.

HR
Are any of your family members involved or were involved in activism?

KD
My dad was. He was part of the Black Panthers in the U.K. I remember he said they did a walk from Cardiff to London or something ridiculous. That was when he was in his early 20s. I think that's where his passion for that comes from as well. My nan would also tell me stories of when she used to work in Barbados, she used to work in this plantation house, and she'd cook, and she'd tell me stories of how they would pull pranks on the people at the house. They would take the legs off the table and pull it out. They cooked them a whole dinner and then they'd just pull the legs off the table, and they'd be like, 'Oh God, we're gonna throw it in the bin now and then just eat it later.'

My nan would tell me stuff like that all the time about when she used to work there. It was like a small form of rebellion at that time. It shows how my family have just had that rebelliousness.

HR
How do you understand how Black movements, like the Black Pamphlet with your father's generation, or BLM, how it manifests and how it looks in the U.K. where Black people are very much cultural and didn’t have as much shared history, versus in America, with African Americans?

KD
I think that's a good question. I feel that British history in terms of anti-racism is very different to America, just because of the setup and how it is. South Asians would be seen as more ‘other’ than Black people because a lot of Black people would be coming from Commonwealth countries, like the Caribbean, where they were already speaking English, they were Christians. South Asians, who were often speaking a different language and were Muslim or Hindu, would be seen as more ‘others’ than Black people.

Black people are still part of that history because we would still link arms with the South Asian community in terms of the struggle against that. The movement, in terms of the Black Panther movement or the Black Liberation movement of the 60s and 70s, was very radical, and again, because it was led by politics. Black Panthers were not just fighting for Black liberation, they actually understood that poverty played a huge part, and that actually poverty affected the white working class as well. They would often fight for the white working class to join together and fight against the system of capitalism.

I think the BLM movement in the U.S. and the U.K. did lack a lot of politics. There was a huge uprising of people who wanted to stand against the violence that they saw, and [it was] very spontaneous. But when it came to the politics, because there wasn't any there, it opened it up to like Black nationalism or
or Black capitalism, like we just need more Black lawyers, or we just need more Black businesses. But that won’t lead to our own freedom. Being oppressed by your own people is still being oppressed.

I think [with] the BLM movement, there wasn't a legacy of the politics, whereas I'm part of BLM Cardiff and we're probably one of the only like BLMs in the whole of the U.K. that are still running right now, and that is because we've always been led by politics. We've been outside the home office protesting near the treatment of refugees. We're part of the Palestine movement. We link up with Cardiff Sudan and we do demonstrations, because we're led by politics, and we understand that we have to stand with all oppressed people. That liberation can't come, it won't just come from Black people, it's going to come from all of us. I think that is the biggest difference... in politics. People can be pushed to take action and be appalled by the violence, but ultimately the politics is what's going to see it through and actually be able to build a solid movement and keep it going.

HR
If you could speak to an ancestor, who would you talk to and what would you ask them?

KD
Probably my nan, because my nan would always give me advice when I was younger. I just want to know what she would say now that I'm older, the stuff that I'm involved in, because my nan would always want me to be safe, but she would never discourage me from being involved in stuff like this. I would just want to speak to her now and just see what she would say. In terms of the stuff that I'm involved in, like activism and what what's going on in the world now. I would just want to speak to her to see what she has to say. I feel like I just need advice from her.

HR
What would you like to say to future generations?

KD
I would probably say to keep going. That the fight for liberation is not for you better today. It's for a better tomorrow. You have to lend your hand to the struggle, push forward. You have to be actively involved. I would just say to keep going, to be involved, to be active and to be led by the politics, [to] be led by what you know is right, [to] be led by those around you who are fighting for you as well, not just for you based on your skin, your gender, but based on the fact that we're all oppressed people and we all deserve freedom. Just to keep involved and keep going.

HR
Beyond empathy, because unfortunately that's something that a lot of people tend to struggle with, why should somebody care for oppressed folk? Why should they want to be in solidarity with them?

KD
People should care because ultimately, when we talk about the rise of fascism today, the fascists will say [that] they hate all Muslims. OK, we'll take away the Muslims. Then they'll say they hate all refugees. OK, let's take away the refugees. Then they'll say they hate all Black people. Let's take away the Black people. It never ends.

That’s why we have to fight in the here and now for everybody, because you can't leave one oppressed group open to attacks because it leads everyone to attacks. It's so important to fight for those who are not just yourself, for others. Because that's the only way you're going to create a better and fairer world for everybody. You can't live in a world where there's sexism but no racism. You can't live in a world where there's no ableism but there'ssexism. That's not possible. All these things are interconnected, so you have to fight them on all fronts to create a better world for everybody.